The way to Purchase a Rental Property with NO Cash OR Credit score

Ashley:
That is Actual Property Rookie episode 280.

Tempo:
Each time on a topic to deal, vendor will get the quantity they need, agent will get paid their fee and I get a property the place I’ve an rate of interest under 4% hooked up to it with a cost that I can exit and money movement instantly with no credit score test. And I pay numerous occasions 85 to 99% of retail worth. So everyone wins. The sellers get more cash, the brokers receives a commission fee and I don’t should go to a financial institution. Everyone wins within the transaction.

Ashley:
My identify is Ashley Kehr, and I’m right here with my co-host, Tony Robinson.

Tony:
And welcome to the Actual Property Rookie Podcast the place each week, twice per week, we’re convey you the inspiration, motivation, and tales you should hear to kickstart your investing journey. Rookie viewers, do we’ve got a present for you guys at present. We’ve acquired the one and solely Tempo Morby on the Actual Property Rookie Podcast. Should you don’t know Tempo, Tempo is well-known within the BP group, however Tempo additionally has a brand new ebook out referred to as Wealth with out Money: Supercharge Your Actual Property Investing with Topic-to, Vendor Financing, and Different Artistic Offers. Tempo comes on to interrupt issues down all about artistic financing.

Ashley:
Yeah. He additionally talks about… He offers this golf analogy as to why chances are you’ll be enjoying this actual property recreation with only a putter when you need to have your whole golf equipment. So I believed that was an excellent fascinating analogy, however very, very relatable.

Tony:
Yeah. Virtually like David Greene esque, proper? With the metaphors there. It was good.

Ashley:
Yeah. After which we truly walked by way of the way to get a deal at present, as in get a deal in in the future. So the primary motive we’ve got on, as Tony talked about, that Tempo simply wrote a ebook, Wealth With out Money. So head to biggerpockets.com/wealthwithoutcash to pre-order this ebook. Be sure to pre-order earlier than Could 2nd. Tempo truly goes by way of what you get with the pre-order moreover simply the ebook. And let me inform you, these are alternatives. I believe me and Tony would possibly simply buy a pair books to get the entries.

Tony:
One of many prizes, I’ll simply trace out one in every of them, however you possibly can actually get on a tv present with Tempo if you’re one of many fortunate winners right here. Tempo additionally, along with the ebook popping out, he’s acquired a bootcamp popping out with BiggerPockets about artistic financing and topic to, and that begins June 18th after which ends on August twenty sixth. So in the event you guys head over to biggerpockets.com/bootcamps, you possibly can study extra in regards to the Artistic Finance Bootcamp.

Ashley:
And naturally, if you’re only a rookie investor and wish to study something and the whole lot about getting began in actual property, there’s additionally the Rookie Bootcamp that I’m co-hosting with Tyler Madden that will probably be beginning those self same dates over the summer season.
Tempo, welcome again to the present. The final time we acquired along with you, we had been truly dwell at BPCon and acquired to do a dwell recording. And now we’re again to being digital. So how have you ever been?

Tempo:
That was particular. San Diego BPCon. Now the brand new BPCon is in Disney World primarily. Orlando.

Tony:
Yeah.

Tempo:
So it’s not in Disney World. I simply have a look at Orlando and I’m like, “All of Orlando is Disney World.”

Ashley:
Did you see that we’re truly going to Common one evening too? They rented out Common Studios.

Tempo:
I noticed that. The final evening because the cap celebration. I’m tremendous enthusiastic about that.

Tony:
Tempo, I don’t know if you realize this, however that was one in every of our greatest performing YouTube movies, or I believe it was the perfect performing YouTube video for the Actual Property Rookie Podcast additionally.

Tempo:
Wow, that’s cool.

Tony:
You bought some massive sneakers to fill at present, brother.

Ashley:
Yeah.

Tempo:
Yeah, I simply was so excited to hang around with you, guys. You guys had been nice to fulfill. And Tony, your partner, and simply everyone in the entire BiggerPockets management, it was simply so cool to hang around backstage and try this podcast. So thanks a lot for having me again.

Tony:
No, after all, brother. We’re right here to speak about one thing particular at present, proper? Tempo, you’ve gotten entered uncommon air as now an formally printed BiggerPockets creator. Clearly, we’re going to speak about your new ebook, man, Wealth With out Money: Supercharge Your Actual Property Investing with Topic-to, Vendor Financing, and Different Artistic Offers. However earlier than we do, man, you’re clearly the king of all issues artistic finance, so we thought it’d be cool for the Rookie viewers simply to form of get a fast breakdown of what it truly means to do a deal topic to, what’s vendor financing, and form of what are a few of these artistic methods.
So Ash, I don’t know. The place ought to we begin? You’re a wealth of information, Tempo. I simply wish to ensure that we get the viewers the perfect stuff.

Ashley:
Yeah, let’s begin with what are the choices for artistic financing. After I began investing, I didn’t even know you possibly can go to a financial institution to get a mortgage. I simply thought you needed to have money to purchase a property, as a result of my mentor, that’s what he did. He used money to purchase properties. So what are ways in which you are able to do artistic financing? Let’s begin with that.

Tempo:
I believe the most important problem in actual property is that there are such a lot of methods to succeed, whether or not it’s from the BRRRR technique, sure, utilizing money, all of this stuff that artistic finance I believe may be very daunting for individuals as a result of what it does is it takes the ten methods to achieve success in actual property in money or conventional strategies and it multiplies by 10. There’s actually 100 alternative ways to make cash with artistic finance, perhaps much more. I’ve by no means seen a transaction ever similar to a different transaction due to how artistic you may be with it. However what precisely does that imply?
So in the event you have a look at this, right here’s what you’ll see. You’ll see that there are all… Every thing begins with a vendor, proper? No matter deal you’re working, there’s all the time a vendor of a property concerned. After which that vendor is both A, represented by an actual property agent, or B, they’re unrepresented, proper? And what we name as actual property agent, these are on market. And up unrepresented, we name these off market, okay? No matter technique you select, you’re going to go after a vendor in in some way, A or B. That’s mainly it. Happening market, I see one thing on the MLS or Zillow and I’m going to achieve out to this actual property agent and I’m going to try to get this actual property agent to assist me work a cope with this vendor. Or B, direct to vendor. You’re going to the vendor direct perhaps primarily based off of a ache level like probate, foreclosures, expired itemizing, no matter it might be, and also you’re working leads.
So right here’s the place artistic finance is available in. What I discovered is that once I was doing nothing however conventional lead gen, I might’ve to generate about 50 leads for each two offers that I did. Why? Effectively, typically the sellers usually are not motivated. They don’t wish to promote in any respect and there could also be simply kicking tires. However what I discovered most of the time, it was both A, B, or a mixture of each of them, which was C. It was both A, the vendor desires an excessive amount of cash. And even brokers run into this on a regular basis the place an agent will go discuss to a vendor, vendor says, “I need you to listing my property.” The agent sees that the property’s price $300,000 by comping it after which the vendor says, “I need $350,000.” So you’ve gotten mainly unrealistic sellers, proper?
After I first began Ashley, I additionally didn’t know that individuals might get a tough cash mortgage. I believed a tough cash mortgage was like a mortgage shark.

Ashley:
With the baseball bat?

Tempo:
Precisely. Like they’re going to interrupt your kneecaps in the event you don’t pay them again, proper? What you don’t know hurts you dramatically. And what artistic finance does is it helps these sellers that need an excessive amount of cash. Then B is perhaps a vendor has a scarcity of fairness. And also you’re seeing this increasingly more and extra proper now, particularly in the event you look in Maricopa County the place I dwell, I dwell in Maricopa County, Phoenix space, and also you pull up expired listings. Should you’re a rookie, write this phrase down, expired listings. You wish to go get a topic to deal at present? Go after expired listings. Usually, brokers are representing a vendor. The agent has six months usually in 99% of preparations to promote that home for the house owner. And if they will’t, then that itemizing will get damaged and the agent not represents that vendor and now that turns into what we name an expired or unlisted or delisted property. If you need a topic to deal, that’s the place you go, is expired itemizing.

Ashley:
Are you able to simply inform everybody the place they will get these expired listings? What are the steps they should take?

Tempo:
So first off, I might make pals with actual property brokers as a result of the simplest and the free most cost-effective approach to get them is simply get them from an inventory agent or an actual property agent who has entry to the MLS as a result of they get that info at no cost, okay? Second place I might go is I might go to perhaps PropStream. BiggerPockets has a terrific software program as effectively. There’s so many alternative methods to tug that up. We get ours from PropStream.

Tony:
Tempo, simply actually rapidly. To not go too far down the rabbit gap, however say I’m a model new investor, I’ve by no means accomplished a deal earlier than and I wish to attain out to brokers for the needs you simply talked about. What am I saying to them to get them to take me critically and truly give me deal movement?

Tempo:
Okay, cool. That is nice. That is the place I’ll tie that every one into your query. So both A, I used to be working, I’d go generate 50 leads, I might go get two of these offers money as a result of I’d have tremendous motivated sellers out of fifty leads, proper? The opposite 48, they both, vendor desires an excessive amount of cash or the vendor has a scarcity of fairness, or a mixture of each, which is C. So what I discovered is that I might make the most of topic to and vendor finance. And there’s a handful of different issues as effectively, however I received’t go into them as a result of we solely have restricted time, however like notation agreements and lease choices and all of these forms of issues.
One other technique I discuss within the ebook is named the Morby technique, which is a technique I created about 5 years in the past. We received’t go into that at present. However there’s so some ways to make cash. The 2 main stuff you wish to go after are topic to and vendor finance. So what you’re doing is in the event you’re going to achieve out to an agent, what you wish to do is you wish to begin off the dialog all the time about their commissions. All the time. “Hey, my identify is Tempo Morby. If I used to be capable of get your commissions paid, would your vendor be open to phrases?” Some brokers know what phrases are, some brokers don’t. Principally navigating that dialog, some brokers go, “What do you imply phrases?” You go, “Effectively, once more, if I might get your commissions paid, would your vendor be open to me taking on their current funds? Or in case your vendor doesn’t have funds they usually personal the home free and clear, would they be open to vendor financing the property to me?”
Now the agent will hesitate. Generally they’ll go, “Oh. Ah…” You go, “Look. By the best way, I’m not going to barter the gross sales value. I’ll even come as much as the quantity that the vendor and you might be searching for. I’ll get your commissions paid, however I’m a phrases purchaser. I’m going to purchase solely on phrases.” Now the method of topic to and vendor finance, right here’s what I discovered. After I would go after these 50 leads, two offers flip into money and one other eight offers will get accomplished with artistic. I discovered that using artistic finance topic to, which we will bounce into what that’s in only a second, and vendor finance, using these two methods, I might 4X my conversion charge and 4X my monetization.
And by the best way, it’s method simpler to purchase a property, topic to, than it’s with money. Manner simpler. The one motive why individuals are confused by topic to is as a result of it’s not all the time talked about and it’s new. It’s form of like when Ashley and I each discovered, “Oh wait, individuals aren’t truly money consumers? Like 99% of individuals are not shopping for with money?” They’re truly, in the event you use the right wording, you’d say, “I’m a tough cash purchaser.” We’re not money consumers, we’re arduous cash consumers. We purchase homes to flip them utilizing arduous cash. So it’s similar to studying a brand new language.
Topic to sounds complicated, however it’s truly method simpler. It’s sooner to shut out a title firm. There’s 5 much less individuals concerned. It’s method simpler to get underneath contract. There’s not often inspections, there’s by no means any value determinations, there’s no banks concerned, there’s no mortgage payoff requests, there’s no functions. There’s none of that occurring, that are all of the difficult elements of a money transaction. And so in topic to, you don’t have any of these issues. So it’s method simpler for me to go to a house owner and say, “Your asking value isn’t the issue for me. Whether or not you’re prepared to do phrases or not is my major concern.” It’s like, “You’re not going to barter my gross sales value?” No, I’m not. All I need is I need the rate of interest. I inform sellers on a regular basis, “I’m not likely shopping for your own home. I’m shopping for the rate of interest hooked up to your own home. That’s actually what I need. Your own home simply so occurs to return with it.”

Tony:
Tempo, a lot, a lot good info there, brother. A lot. And I simply wish to pause for a second as a result of I wish to make clear a couple of issues for our rookies earlier than we preserve going.

Tempo:
After all, yeah.

Tony:
So first, if we take one step again, are you able to outline what topic to means and outline what vendor financing means and clarify how these two ideas are completely different from going to a standard financial institution to get financing on a property?

Tempo:
After all, yeah. So let’s have a look at it like a automobile. Let’s say I wish to go purchase a Toyota Prius and I’m going to a financial institution to go get a Toyota. I’m going to the automobile dealership. The automobile dealership says, “Okay, effectively what would you like? How a lot are you able to afford?” After which what do they do? They go to their finance division, they run your credit score, they have a look at your job credentials, they have a look at your W2. They have a look at all of the issues similar to you do by way of a mortgage they usually see in the event you’re worthy sufficient to purchase that automobile. Okay, nice. In a automobile transaction, very like an actual property transaction, you might be paying over retail for each home.
By the best way, have you learnt each house owner pays over retail for each home that they purchase? No house owner buys homes with equities. They purchase at full retail on the MLS. And in spite of everything their commissions and shutting prices and all their further charges and all of the transferring bills to get into the home, each house owner begins by shopping for a home underwater, proper? But it surely takes months to undergo that course of. So I have a look at that and I’m going, “If fairness isn’t the primary objective within the very starting, fairness will construct over time, my tenants can pay down over time, actually what I wish to do is keep away from going by way of the financial institution.” So why don’t I simply go to any individual that has a Toyota Prius and say, “Hey, do you’ve gotten a automobile cost on that Toyota Prius?” They usually say, “Sure.” I’m going, “Nice. Can I simply take over the funds on that Toyota Prius? As a substitute of me going to a automobile dealership paying over retail, getting a brand new mortgage, going by way of the entire course of, can I simply make the funds in your current mortgage?” Vendor says, “Sure.”
And in the event you go on my YouTube channel, I purchased a Kia, topic to, the place I discovered a vendor that goes, “Look, I purchased this on a dealership final yr, it doesn’t have any fairness and I’m making an attempt to promote the Kia on Craigslist, however I’m getting lowballed.” Welcome to actual property. That’s the identical factor. Owners purchase a home, a yr later, they try to purchase it for a job switch or perhaps they’re getting redeployed in the event that they’re within the army. They go to promote to an actual property agent. How a lot does it price to promote a home by way of an actual property agent? 3%, 3% and one other 3 to 4% in closing prices, dwelling warranties, inspection gadgets, et cetera. You’re like 10% to promote a home. It prices 10% to promote a home.
So for a vendor that doesn’t have numerous fairness, I simply go to the vendor and say, “Can I simply take over your funds?” And that’s the strategy of topic to. I take the deed, proper? As a result of right here’s the large distinction. If I’m going to Craigslist proper now and I begin calling those who personal Toyota Priuses, you’re going to run into some those who personal them outright, they paid money for these automobiles. And also you’re going to run into some individuals that also have automobile funds on these automobiles.
Vendor finance means the the automobile is paid off and I can simply say, “Hey, I’d like to purchase your automobile on funds. What funds do you wish to arrange the place I simply make you a month-to-month cost and also you develop into my financial institution?” That is named vendor finance. Vendor is financing me, vendor finance. After which topic to, I simply go, “Oh, you’ve gotten a automobile cost. No drawback. I’ll simply take over the automobile cost precisely what it’s. I’ll log into your account, I’ll make the cost each single month. Registration will get put in my identify. Possession will get put into my identify. And I’m the proprietor of the automobile, however the cost stays in your identify. We keep away from all of the financial institution charges.” The one individual that makes cash once I go get a brand new financial institution mortgage to repay your current financial institution mortgage are two banks. You don’t make any more cash and I undoubtedly don’t make any cash. So what am I doing going and getting a brand new mortgage to repay an outdated mortgage? Why don’t you simply let me take over the outdated mortgage?
I’m not name speaking about assumptions. I’ve by no means gone by way of a credit score test. No person’s ever checked out my job historical past. No person’s ever checked out my checking account, see how a lot cash I’ve in it. Nothing out of all of the transactions we do. So topic to is when any individual has an current set of funds that I can take over, an current debt. Vendor finance means I work straight with a vendor and we construction a cost that works for the vendor.

Tony:
Tempo, earlier than you go into vendor financing extra, I simply wish to word that if you had been on on episode 236, we did undergo as to why a vendor would try this. Like why would they belief any individual taking on their funds? So in the event you guys wish to study extra about that, return and take heed to that episode as to how come that doesn’t have an effect on their DTI, like how you utilize the third celebration servicer, all these issues. So in the event you actually wish to study extra about topic to, return and take heed to that episode.

Tempo:
Yeah, so what I’m primarily doing is I’m going to owners or brokers. Most likely half the offers I do are with brokers concerned. The opposite half are with vendor. And why is it half-and-half? It’s half-and-half as a result of I’m going to the brokers first and I inform the brokers, “Hey, it appears to be like like your own home has been listed for over 100 days and money consumers are already telling you this isn’t a great match for {the marketplace}. You’re asking an excessive amount of cash. I will probably be one of many solely consumers you’ll communicate to that don’t care in regards to the buy value. So if I might get your commissions paid, would you be open to speaking to your vendor about me taking on current funds or making a cost construction that is sensible for each of us?” 50% of the brokers say sure. 50% of the brokers say no.
So the 50% of brokers that say no, have you learnt what we do, is we put them in our CRM and we monitor the home till it doesn’t promote and when it goes expired, we then name the vendor straight and say, “Hello, we tried speaking to your agent about this home two months in the past and speaking about taking on funds. Did your agent ever convey that as much as you?”
“Nope, my agent by no means introduced your provide to me.”
“Nice. Would you be open to letting us take over your funds?” They go, “You’ll be prepared to do this?” So the paradigm shift for me was like the identical paradigm shift you had Ashley if you went from studying from one individual that purchasing money is how actual property buyers make cash to realizing that 99% of actual property buyers don’t use their very own money, they use non-public cash or arduous cash. There was that complete mild bulb second of like, “Oh my gosh, what have I been lacking?” It’s the identical factor with me. After I acquired into artistic finance, I used to assume that sellers could be not open to this. After which if you even have the dialog with the vendor, the vendor is like, “Wow, you’d be open to that?” It’s the polar reverse of what you’d assume.
Now, after all, similar to if I walked into my neighborhood and knocked on my neighbor’s door and stated, “Hello, I’d like to purchase your own home,” most house owner’s homes usually are not on the market. So that you’re not simply going to speak to a random individual to purchase their home whether or not it’s money or artistic and even itemizing by way of an agent. 95% of homes usually are not on the market, nor will they be for the subsequent couple years. So what you’re doing on this scenario is I’m searching for brokers which have listings which might be over 100 days after which we begin reaching out to the agent saying, “Hey, I’m a money purchaser. Nonetheless, if this home was a great match for a money purchaser, it most likely already would’ve offered. Nonetheless, I’m additionally a phrases purchaser, so if I can get your fee paid within the course of, would your vendor be open to letting me take over funds or vendor financing?”
Once more, 50% of brokers are educated on this they usually get excited on the prospect. The opposite 50% of brokers which might be new or unseasoned or their dealer hasn’t taught them this, they go, “No” or “Sure, I’ll current it to my vendor, however I do know they’ll say no.” We simply wait till the itemizing goes expired after which we purchase these offers anyway.

Tony:
Web page, only one clarifying query right here. If I’m placing myself within the vendor’s sneakers and we’re doing a topic to deal, that is the one factor that I believe would make me nervous, is that if Tony and Tempo comply with a deal, topic to, the place Tempo is taking on my mortgage and I’m transferring title to Tempo however my identify nonetheless stays on the precise mortgage paperwork, what occurs to Tony if Tempo decides to cease paying?

Tempo:
Effectively, there’s a handful of issues. That is the place perhaps we get a little bit bit into the weeds in the event you’re okay with it. In each single state, there’s one thing referred to as an executory contract, okay? You guys have heard of them underneath completely different phrases. Land contract, contract for deed, settlement on the market, most of these issues. You guys ever heard these phrases earlier than?

Tony:
Mm-hmm.

Tempo:
Okay, that’s referred to as an executory contract. All states that is authorized. And what’s that? It implies that I can take over your funds, however you continue to maintain the deed as safety simply in case I fail to make funds. So it’s a topic to mild mainly. It’s the actual strategy of me shopping for and controlling the property, besides the deed by no means transfers into the client’s identify. The vendor places it into a security deposit field or no matter method you wish to maintain it. The deed stays in limbo till the client pays off the home, sells the home, or refinances the home.

Ashley:
After I did a topic to deal, we truly had the vendor signal over the deed, however it was by no means filed. Our lawyer virtually held it in escrow.

Tempo:
What state was that? In Florida?

Ashley:
New York.

Tempo:
Okay, New York. So New York could be contract for deed or a land contract, so relying on what lawyer you went with. They usually maintain it in limbo as safety for the vendor. Now, why don’t I simply try this on a regular basis? Why don’t I simply try this in a method the place I do an executory contract? It’s even less complicated, proper? It’s like, “Effectively, now the vendor has safety.” The issue with that’s that the client doesn’t have the power to jot down that property off on their taxes using depreciation. So if I’m an actual property investor, one of the crucial enticing issues to me is definitely if you’re model new and also you’re a rookie, you really need money movement. However when you get to some extent of money movement the place it’s paying to your bills and your way of life and staff and all that form of stuff, the primary motivator for me to purchase properties is not money movement. The principle motivator for me is to purchase as many properties as I can so I pay $0 in taxes yearly.
And so if I purchase on an settlement on the market, that’s what we name it in Arizona or a land contract in Florida or contract for deed in New York Metropolis, they’re all the identical factor. They’re simply referred to as one thing completely different per state. Precisely the identical factor. Umbrella time period is executory contract. And in the event you guys are watching this or listening to this, you possibly can sort in Tempo Morby executory contract on YouTube, and I’ve much more details about it. However you probably did an executory contract as a result of what that does is it retains the vendor even at the next stage of safety, however what it does is do a disservice to the client the place the client not can use that property as a tax profit.

Ashley:
Yeah, we did it the place it was held till the again taxes had been paid off. So it was held as form of leverage for that. After which as soon as the again taxes had been paid off, then it went into the Farm LLC, after which it was continued the cost. So it’s like a mixture of them, I suppose.

Tempo:
Yeah, we name {that a} relationship contract. A relationship contract means you guys are relationship for a sure period of time till you resolve to finalize and get married. And so that you dated, you had been relationship and also you had management and also you had been in a relationship. After which when that factor, no matter that set off was, typically it’s down cost help, typically it’s an IRS lien, typically it’s a mechanic’s lien, typically it’s a tax factor like what you’re speaking about Ashley, after which as soon as that’s cleared and dealt with, then the deed will switch into the client’s identify and consummate that relationship contract.

Ashley:
Do you assume for any individual that’s perhaps going to be in a scenario like that, to make it possible for that form of set off occurs within the tax yr that they’re buying the property in order that for these tax benefits, their identify will probably be on the deed for that present tax yr that they purchased it?

Tempo:
You need to use depreciation in any yr you personal a property. So even in the event you resolve to not make the most of depreciation on, let’s say I purchase a home, 123 Essential Road, and I resolve, “Oh wow, I’ve already worn out all my revenue this yr from the opposite homes I purchased, however now I’ve 5 or 6 homes that I don’t actually need for tax advantages,” you possibly can all the time save these for subsequent yr or the yr after. So that you’re not pressured to make use of depreciation within the first yr you personal the home. It’s a great query. Should you want the tax advantages, then sure. Should you don’t want the tax advantages, then you definately don’t want to fret about that and you may wait till the next yr.
Man, I might discuss taxes for actually 4 hours. It’s one of the crucial intriguing issues that like, “I haven’t paid revenue taxes in seven years,” and it blows my thoughts. Folks go, “Effectively, how do I make more cash?” I’m going, “Maintain more cash.” Instantly a approach to make 30, 40% more cash than what you’re making at present is don’t give 30% of it to the IRS. Maintain it. And the best way we do that’s by being… Isn’t it bizarre? We get incentivized to put money into actual property. The IRS is like, “Right here’s a bonus. Go put money into actual property. Maintain your cash simply so long as you set into an funding.” What? It’s loopy. In order that’s the explanation why topic to is so alluring is as a result of now I’ve the deed in my identify similar to you probably did, Ashley. You simply had a hiccup the place now your hiccup was taxes.
Tony’s reference or query is discussing the hiccup between a vendor being overly involved about having any individual have the deed of their identify and the mortgage within the vendor’s identify. That’s straightforward to beat by one in every of two issues. One, be a extra credible and higher negotiator, which is me, or two, say, “Okay, effectively if you’re fearful about having the deed in my identify or my identify on title whereas your identify is on the mortgage, why don’t we simply do an executory contract the place we maintain the deed in limbo till I execute on a sale or refinance or pay the property off?”
As a result of what you get… Even when, Ashley, your lawyer stored that property in limbo for 25 years, that’s a standard land contract, contract for deed bond for deed, settlement for gross sales, simply once more executory contract, in the event that they stored it in limbo, you all the time have management of the property. And guess what you get? You get all of the money movement, you get all of the appreciation, you get all of the mortgage pay down. Let’s say to procure it topic to, and your tenants are paying down that current mortgage, you get the credit score for that. The one factor you don’t get is the tax bonus or the depreciation. And so it’s 90% nearly as good as a topic to deal, however man, 90% is fairly cool too.

Ashley:
Yeah. I believe that’s so nice to make clear these two issues for everybody as a result of they’re two fully completely different choices in that one side. And that’s the place it goes into taking a look at what your individual objectives are, your why or what you’re making an attempt to try for in actual property and if the tax benefits is a extremely massive factor and also you went and did the land contract and also you realized, “Oh no, I’m not going to get any of these tax advantages. That was the only real motive that I used to be making an attempt to get into actual property anyway.” So I’m actually glad we went by way of it and clarified that.

Tempo:
Yeah. I imply, that is the factor, is I might discuss executory contracts, arbitrage, lease possibility, all these different methods. There’s so many methods to purchase actual property. All it comes right down to is that this, distill this right down to one thing quite simple. If I’m enjoying golf, am I going to win or defeat my opponent if they’ve a full bag of 14 golf equipment if I solely have one membership? No, as a result of in the event you perceive golf, you’ve acquired a driver to hit the ball actually far. You’ve acquired a putter to simply put it 2 or 3 ft or a few inches in some conditions.
You think about making an attempt to chip a ball with a driver or making an attempt to get a driver to hit a ball out of a sand lure? Basically what individuals are doing is that they’re exhibiting as much as an actual property transaction with a putter. When any individual like me reveals as much as an actual property transaction with a full bag of golf golf equipment they usually have a look at, “What’s occurring? How can I assist the vendor? How can I assist the agent get their commissions? And the way do I get into this cope with no credit score test, no credentials and truly utilizing, if I must, if I must convey cash to the desk, convey a non-public moneylender?” And all that comes right down to is the entire choices. So executory contracts, like what we talked about, proper?
So Tony, vendor’s prepared to do a topic to deal, however they’re overly involved about their safety. Simple. Executory contract, proper? Vendor desires to promote the property to me, however they wish to make it possible for I’m as credible as I say I’m. Okay, do a relationship contract like Ashley did. Say for six months, let’s do an executory contract the place I’ve management of the asset and after six months it converts to a full sub to deal as a result of now I’ve proven you for six months I could make my funds on time, handle the property and put a tenant in the home. This isn’t even doable in a money transaction. None of that is doable.
And so all these sellers that need too excessive of a purchase order value, guys, I’ll pay, in some conditions, 50,000 to $70,000 over a retail ask. An agent has one thing listed at 600 grand. And to ensure that me to get into that cope with no cash out of pocket and actually low rate of interest, I’ll go, “Effectively, what’s the quantity that will get you enthusiastic about giving me the phrases that excite me?” They usually go, “Effectively, we’ve got it listed for 600, however in the event you purchase it for 650, we’ll do a no down and 0% curiosity deal, or a 2% curiosity or a 3% curiosity deal.”
“Nice. I provide the lever in your aspect that will get you excited and also you give me the lever on my aspect that will get me excited.” You possibly can’t try this in money. And so to distill this right down to probably the most primary model, is that if I discuss to 50 individuals or 50 alternatives, whether or not it’s coming from a wholesaler, an agent, or on to a vendor or a probate lawyer referral or wherever the supply of the lead comes from, let’s say I collect 50 leads, everyone is providing a money provide, you’re going to get two offers out of these 50. I’m going to get 10, proper? That’s all this comes right down to, is how can I’ve extra instruments to convey to the scenario to assist everyone concerned? I might say the most important drawback with artistic finance… What do you guys assume is the most important drawback with artistic finance?

Tony:
Lack of information.

Ashley:
Yeah.

Tempo:
The primary individual that doesn’t perceive it’s the licensed agent.

Ashley:
Having that center man.

Tempo:
Effectively, what it’s is that they get a license. So all my companions are licensed. I select to not be licensed. However all my companions are licensed. There’s a profit to being licensed. However we see numerous actual property brokers that aren’t educated by their dealer or no person’s speaking about it at their brokerage. They’re not hanging out with different actual property buyers. So when any individual brings a possibility to their shopper, topic to, vendor finance, executory contract, lease possibility, arbitrage, regardless of the technique is, the agent instantly goes, “I didn’t hear about this in actual property faculty. My brokers by no means introduced this up. That should imply it’s unlawful.” And so what occurs is the brokers usually are not educating themselves they usually’re not studying, “How do I double or triple my commissions by bringing extra instruments to my sellers?” They’re not going on the market and studying that on their very own as a result of no person’s telling them to take action.
And so, one of many massive issues that we’re doing this yr is our initiative, an enormous objective I’ve is I’ve three attorneys and myself going across the nation and we’re creating continued schooling programs for licensed actual property brokers in order that they will study topic to from attorneys and from myself. Arizona’s first, Georgia’s second, Florida, Texas, et cetera. We’re going round and educating by way of their continued schooling course that their brokers are capable of approve, they usually get their continued schooling credit studying topic to in vendor finance. So as a substitute of me complaining in regards to the business and saying, “My gosh, why aren’t these brokers doing this?” I’m going, “Why don’t these brokers know this?” It’s as a result of any individual’s not taking the workload on their again and stated, “Let me go educate them legally in how to do that correctly.”
And extra importantly, educate the brokers to show their brokers. So as soon as a month, we’ve got an agent class in my workplace. So long as you’re a licensed actual property agent, it’s free. We normally get 1,700 those who enroll. We will solely let 300 individuals within the door. We do that at no cost, six hours as soon as a month. I usher in an lawyer and an escrow officer that’s been doing artistic finance for 48 years, I consider. I simply give and provides to the business as a result of what finally ends up occurring is then brokers convey me offers they usually go, “Oh my gosh, I had no concept I might do that.” In order that’s truthfully the most important drawback with the business. It’s not even the sellers. The sellers are enthusiastic about these alternatives. They like it. Vendor finance helps mitigate capital good points. The sellers get more cash. The sellers get a proportion and a return and securitize funding in opposition to their very own actual property that they perceive. May you inform I might discuss this for like 25 hours?

Tony:
Yeah.

Ashley:
Yeah.

Tony:
But it surely’s a lot great things, Tempo. There’s so many angles to it, which once more, which is why I believe individuals must go choose up a replica of your ebook, Wealth With out Money. You discuss numerous this in there.

Tempo:
Can I inform you one thing that I did in regards to the ebook as a result of I’m not… I hate to say this, however I’m not an enormous reader. What I did is I made that ebook so particular. I made each chapter will get a three-hour deep dive on the context of that chapter by me making a video companion information. Form of like once I was studying the Bible for the primary time, I’m studying the Previous Testomony, I’m like, “What the heck is happening within the Previous Testomony? This factor is the weirdest factor.” These bizarre names and folks stabbing one another, It’s like, “Why is the Bible telling me about all this bizarre stuff?” After which any individual got here to me and goes, “Hey, learn this companion information. It’s a companion information that helps you perceive the context of every chapter at every verse within the Bible.” And unexpectedly the Bible turned tremendous cool to me and it was so enjoyable.
So I stated, once I write a ebook, a ebook with BiggerPockets, I wish to create a video companion information. So each chapter will get three hours of context on whiteboards and breaking down offers. The primary chapter of the ebook, test this out, that is so freaking cool, I usher in a dwell viewers to report this video companion information in my studio proper over 15 toes away. I’ve acquired like 15 individuals in. I’m going, “All proper, guys. Welcome to the Video Companion Information with BiggerPockets” and my telephone rings. I look down at it, and it’s a vendor that I’ve been negotiating with on a deal in Boston, Massachusetts. He says, “Hey, Tempo, I’m on the town in Arizona. I believed perhaps I might simply cease by your workplace and we might finalize the small print of my deal.” I’m going, “Yeah, come over. I’m recording. Should you don’t thoughts, simply come over to the studio.”
So for an hour and a half, I broke down my pitch, my negotiating, and I lock up a dwell deal within the first hour and a half of the video companion information proper there for the BiggerPockets. Whoever buys and pre-orders that ebook, you’ll get that. The vendor’s like, “Wow. So that you’re simply going to barter with me proper right here with cameras in my face?” I’m going, “What higher place to do it?” The viewers is sitting there like, “I can’t consider Tempo is pitching and simply purchased a duplex in Boston, topic to, in an hour.” Then I went by way of each objection he had. He had six objections. I went by way of each single one in every of them dwell, with a dwell vendor. After which we signed the contract, he leaves, and now I already personal the property. So if you wish to actually study topic to in vendor finance, that ebook goes that will help you. However the video companion information you get with it’s a masterclass. It’s so superior.

Ashley:
Is that only for pre-order, Tempo? I wish to make it possible for’s clear.

Tempo:
It’s just for pre-order, yeah.

Ashley:
Yeah. Everybody, simply pre-order to get that, as a result of that’s going to be enormous worth to everybody. So that you guys don’t wish to miss on the market.

Tempo:
Yeah, and I’ve acquired like chapter 17 is in regards to the legalities of topic to vendor finance lease possibility. I’ve an upcoming class coming in two weeks the place I’ve two attorneys and my escrow officer, and we’re doing a six-hour breakdown of how offers are accomplished legally and referencing the IRS’s web site. The IRS tells you as a purchaser and a vendor the way to deal with your taxes if you purchase or promote topic to. Then there’s all types of laws that references topic to nationwide. It’s in every single place. So I’m going by way of and I’m doing a six-hour class on that. They usually get that six-hour class that’s the companion for chapter 17. So chapter 17’s eight pages, however you get a six-hour authorized class hooked up to that chapter for the pre-order.

Ashley:
Tempo, we’re working out of time right here, but-

Tempo:
All the time. It’s traditional with me.

Ashley:
… for our Rookie viewers, I wish to give form of an instance, a state of affairs. So simply think about that you’re sitting on a park bench, you haven’t any cash, no cellular phone and you should do an actual property deal at present to have the ability to eat tomorrow.

Tempo:
Simple.

Ashley:
What would you do? Simply form of break that down for us actual fast.

Tony:
And no current contacts, Tempo. You possibly can’t faucet into the individuals that you just already know. You’re ranging from zero.

Tempo:
That is straightforward. I didn’t understand it was straightforward. Once more, again to Ashley’s reference earlier, it’s like I didn’t know what I didn’t know, you realize? I personal a nationwide title firm, so I perceive how title corporations work at a reasonably deep stage. There’s all the time a advertising division in each title firm, okay? Have you ever guys ever accomplished lunch and learns with title and escrow officers? Like they arrive in they usually pay to your meetups and stuff like that, or they sponsor issues for you?

Tony:
No.

Tempo:
You’ve by no means accomplished that?

Tony:
No.

Tempo:
Okay. Should you guys are doing meetups in your native city, get a title firm and say, “Hey, do you guys have a advertising division I might discuss to?” They’ll are available and pay for all of your meals, all of your advertising, the whole lot.

Ashley:
Wow.

Tempo:
Each department of my title firm and each title firm I do know has a month-to-month funds of about $10,000 that they will go and do luncheon lunch for mortgage officers, actual property brokers, and actual property buyers, okay?
So what I might do, I’m sitting on a park bench. The very first thing that I do is I stroll to a any title firm. There’s as many title corporations or closing attorneys in each state as there are Starbucks. They’re in every single place. Drive round. Google it. Simply stroll down the road. You can’t go a mile in Phoenix, Dallas, anyplace with out seeing escrow title, title in escrow, closing, no matter. Stroll in there and say, “Can I discuss to any individual in your advertising division?” And what does the advertising division do? Their whole job is to get buyers like me, actual property buyers or actual property brokers and mortgage officers, to ship recordsdata to their title firm.
I even challenged BiggerPockets to doc this by the best way. I stated, “Guys, I can present your viewers the way to… Get a digicam man on me for six hours. I’ll begin on a park bench, no cellular phone, not even a greenback.” They had been like, “Effectively, you can begin with 100 bucks.” I’m like, “No, I need any cash.”
I’m going to the title firm and I say, “Are you able to guys pull an inventory for me?” One of the best place to get a free listing with free telephone numbers the place you don’t should pay for skip tracing? Your advertising division at a title firm. Any title firm will do that, okay? And what you say is you go, “I need all of the expired listings which have expired within the final 60 days and I need all their telephone numbers.” In Phoenix, that’s about 600. That’s too many individuals for me to name in in the future. I can’t name 600 individuals in a day. So I’m going to now make that listing even smaller. So I say, “I need those who have bought their dwelling between 2018 and 2021.” Why? As a result of all of them have 3% rate of interest on common. I then additionally wish to make it possible for they’ve a VA mortgage or an FHA mortgage. Why, Ashley?

Ashley:
Low down cost so that they don’t have a ton of fairness.

Tempo:
Increase. So now I’ve acquired an inventory of individuals that attempted promoting in order that I already know they tried to promote. Their listings expired, so I didn’t have to inform them that their home wasn’t price what they had been making an attempt to get. The market advised them that. The agent advised them that. I then make it possible for I get rates of interest on the rates of interest I wish to purchase a topic to deal. After which I make it possible for they don’t have fairness. You place these 4 filters on it, you’ll get a 600 identify listing right down to most likely 80 to 100 individuals, okay?
What I do is I then name these individuals and I say, “Hey, my identify is Tempo. I see your own home was in the marketplace. I’m simply questioning what had been you searching for in the marketplace that you weren’t capable of get hold of?” And I let the vendor discuss. The vendor says, “Effectively, the agent couldn’t do that. The agent this, the agent that. Blah, blah, blah.” I’m going, “Effectively, good factor is I’m not an agent. I’m an actual property investor. And whereas most individuals which have submitted affords to you, tried to purchase your own home with money, I include a special set of instruments. I’ve the power to take over funds and get you the quantity you should get out of that home.”
By the best way, I’ve already accomplished this earlier than a number of occasions and I’ve recorded and documented the entire thing. We did this three months in the past. So that you’ll get a vendor. Inside 80 calls in in the future, you’ll get most likely 4, 5 individuals which might be prepared to do a cope with you that day. I might then have the title firm print out the contract for me. I might then both A, ask any individual on the title firm to drop me off or take me to the appointment, or B, I might do a DocuSign by way of the title firm to the vendor utilizing their computer systems.
The following factor I might do is as soon as I’ve the contract, topic to, taking on the mortgage, I might name any individual that does Airbnb. I might name any individual who does sober residing. Primarily sober residing. That is the simplest one to do, sober residing. I’d name up one in every of my sober residing operators and say, “Hey, I do know you’re searching for extra homes to lease. I’ll allow you to lease this property from me. Put your sober residing facility in right here, however I want a deposit at present on the lease. I want a primary and a final month’s deposit.” I can take cash proper there, money, earlier than I even shut escrow on the deal and I can purchase my meals, I can purchase an Uber, I can get a cellular phone, I can do no matter I must do. In in the future, I can have cash in my pocket from skinny air.
That listing is a assured. Should you went to a title firm, acquired that listing, made 80 calls and also you couldn’t get a vendor to say sure, then you definately didn’t make a single name. There’s no different believable motive why you wouldn’t get a home underneath contract, is that you just actually simply didn’t do the work.

Ashley:
I actually wish to have a follow-up episode the place we’ve got one in every of our listeners who truly does this and contacts us and inform us how they acquired their first deal simply by doing this.

Tempo:
Oh, that’d be nice.

Tony:
Yeah.

Ashley:
Yeah, that may be tremendous cool. So whoever does that, tell us.

Tempo:
Should you guys ever wish to do that, I’m throwing this on the desk, in the event you ever wish to run a contest the place any individual comes and spends a day with me and does this by my aspect, I’ll take them out within the subject, we are going to each begin on a park bench and I’ll stroll them by way of and present them the way to do it. I’ll stroll to the title firm, I’ll present them the way to get the listing. I’ll do half the telephone requires them and doc the entire thing after which have them come on. I’ll do no matter you need. It’s the best approach to get a deal at present, receives a commission at present that I’ve ever considered.
Now, I might assign that deal too, however I don’t do numerous wholesale anymore. Most likely 85% of what I do is purchase and maintain, I preserve the whole lot primarily. And I’ll do some assignments, however not rather a lot. 15% a month perhaps, most likely nearer to five%. I might preserve the deal. However you possibly can assign it to any individual like me in in the future and I’ll pay you cash proper now. 5 grand for an task, 10 grand for an task, 15 grand for an task.

Tony:
Ash, that may even be a cool episode for me and also you to go to Arizona with Tempo and see if we will knock that out in a day for our Rookie viewers.

Tempo:
That will be sick.

Ashley:
After which he sends us out on our personal and we compete who will get the deal first.

Tony:
And see who will get the deal first. That will be fairly cool.

Tempo:
That will be cool. Or you possibly can even do a dwell viewers the place you’re like, “Hey, let’s arrange on the title firm and have Tempo make the calls and have a dwell viewers of 10, 15 newbies sitting there and watching us do it.” After which right here’s what occurs. Motion will get different individuals to take motion. So when individuals are within the room with me making calls, they’re like, “Oh my gosh, that’s it? That’s all you’re doing?” Yeah, it’s so easy that the most important motive individuals fail is as a result of they overthink how easy it truly is.

Ashley:
What I consider proper there if you stated individuals taking motion makes others wish to take motion, I consider Forrest Gump when he begins working, and by the tip he’s simply had all these different those who simply begin following as they wish to run too.

Tempo:
Severely. That’s actually what this business wants, is extra individuals which might be taking motion such as you guys and main the cost and creating communities. As a result of all of us study by way of… We’re all monkey see, monkey do. Like I can’t discover ways to body a home by watching YouTube. I’ve to be on web site and watch individuals choose up the hammer. “Why are you utilizing a screw gun versus a hammer on that scenario?”
“Effectively, as a result of the angle right here and I can’t get the angle of assault, so I’m utilizing a screw gun to go…” You need to study on the job and folks should be prepared to allow you to study by your aspect. And so I’ve all the time let individuals go on appointments with me, go to title corporations with me as a result of that’s how I study, and that’s how I assume everyone else must study as effectively.

Tony:
Tempo, I simply wish to let individuals perceive how impactful these methods may be if accomplished the fitting method. So what number of offers have you ever accomplished or what number of items do you’ve gotten proper now presently which might be topic to?

Tempo:
I imply, I’m in every single place. Have a look at this board, proper? Most likely this yr, my goal is to purchase one other 500 single household properties this yr.

Tony:
Wow.

Tempo:
500 single household properties, all topic to and vendor finance. We presently have roughly 1,800 doorways in our portfolio. Not a single a kind of doorways required a credit score test. No person requested for my job credentials. No person requested me for “How lengthy is the cash sitting in your account seasoned?” None of these questions had been ever requested. Not as soon as on any 1,800 doorways we’ve got. And once more, you have a look at this complete whole board. Should you look down right here, I’ve acquired a deal proper right here in Hawaii, circled, 2% topic to deal, an acre and a half on the water. In Alaska, Anchorage, similar factor. It was over right here. There we go. Now I’ve acquired a… Anchorage, Alaska, I purchased a duplex final week, 2.5% topic to deal. I’ll purchase offers from Alaska to Boston. There’s not a state you possibly can’t purchase in. California, New Jersey, New York, all of the locations which might be difficult to do wholesale. You are able to do topic to in all 50 states, and I’m doing them.
So right here’s how impactful it’s. People who don’t perceive topic to and vendor finance have a look at an enormous haystack they usually’re pondering, “Oh, I acquired to seek out some money offers. These needles within the haystack.” I have a look at the haystack and I’m going, “Topic to and vendor finance is the haystack.” It’s in every single place. It’s the complete whole marketplace for me. I don’t even have a look at money offers. I don’t waste my time on money offers. Why would I have a look at money offers?
The factor that’s probably the most impactful once I was primarily wholesaling eight, 9 years in the past, I noticed, sure, the vendor good points the comfort and pace of a wholesale transaction by promoting their home at a deep low cost. However the actuality is once I use topic to and vendor finance, it’s the solely transaction in actual property that could be a true win-win win. Wholesale? The vendor has to take it within the shorts to ensure that the wholesaler to get an task price, to ensure that the repair and flipper to promote it and make cash. And that transaction requires that, and it’s completely superb and it’s wanted within the business for positive.
However what occurs numerous occasions, or each time on a topic to deal, vendor will get the quantity they need, agent will get paid their fee, and I get a property the place I’ve an rate of interest under 4% hooked up to it with a cost that I can exit and money movement instantly with no credit score test. I pay numerous occasions 85 to 99% of retail worth. So everyone wins. The sellers get more cash, the brokers receives a commission fee, and I don’t should go to a financial institution. Everyone wins within the transaction.

Tony:
Tempo, what a masterclass, brother, on how individuals can get began in actual property investing at present. I believe it’s tremendous well timed as a result of there’s numerous of us which might be hesitant to get began, particularly in our Rookie group, proper? A variety of these of us which might be listening haven’t accomplished any offers earlier than. So I believe this provides them a terrific, such as you stated, I suppose one other device of their device belt to get began, brother. So clearly, Tempo, man, in the event you can simply inform individuals the small print of the ebook, when the pre-order begins, and all of the goodies that come together with it.

Tempo:
The pre-orders fairly cool. I advised BiggerPockets, I stated, “How can we make this ebook so particular?” I believe 10 individuals will win a day with Jamil and I on our TV present for season 3. We’ll fly them out. One other 10 individuals will be capable of do an entire class with me in individual in my Phoenix workplace. After which everyone that pre-orders earlier than Could 2nd when the ebook comes out will get mainly a 20-hour masterclass on artistic finance, two to 3 hours per chapter on common, giving full context. As a result of as a lot as I like studying, I’d slightly take heed to stuff. That’s why audiobooks are highly effective. So after all the audiobook is there too. However the Video Companion information actually breaks down whiteboards and teaches you, the listener or the buyer, the best way I wanted to be taught within the very starting.
If I discovered the whole lot on this ebook once I first began, it might’ve minimize my studying curve down by most likely 5 years. I needed to go determine it out slowly and absolutely. So I condensed it fairly powerfully and gave you guys as a lot as I probably might for the those who resolve to pre-order. So thanks for giving me the platform to speak about it.

Ashley:
Tempo, I additionally wish to point out that you’re doing a bootcamp too for BiggerPockets on artistic financing. So you possibly can go to biggerpockets.com/bootcamps. That bootcamp begins this summer season. Effectively Tempo, thanks a lot for becoming a member of us.

Tempo:
Thanks guys a lot. Admire you.

Ashley:
I’m Ashley, @wealthfromrentals, and he’s Tony, @tonyjrobinson, and we will probably be again on Wednesday with one other visitor.